tv Lou Dobbs Tonight FOX Business June 12, 2013 10:00pm-11:01pm EDT
>> good evening thank you for being with us, confeed ns, leaker edward snowden after a brief vanishing act i speaking d complicating the global image of the man who remains in hong kong and today he razeed -- raised stake in his campaign against u.s. agencies and their surveillance, snowden telling south china morning post, that u.s. is engaged in me than 60,000 hacking operations worldwide. modesnowed ep said thatsnowden e of pmary targets of u. intelligence.
snowed know said quote, i a neither a traitor 94 hero, i am an american. >> today's statements may explain who snowden is actually working for. and why this spectical overwhelmed president obama's two day summit with chinese president. and what insight does snowden's conduct and words suggest to whys white house still refuses to characterize the status of the man who many in congress are now calls a traitor. has the white house not noticed at head of nsatestified on capitol hill. as to what snowden has done. and the damage that he has caused. has administration not noticed its own department of justice is drawing up charges against the leaker who has publicly
confessed his acts. some might ask who he is leading this country in what direction, fox poll just released an hour ago when asked about current state of leadehip in washington, americans said, by a margin of 71%, is this the best we can do? the same fox poll shows president's job performance underwater. only 44% of those surveyed approve of his performance, 50% disapprovement president obama toiz to deal with some security issues today with a packed schedule for a trip to boston to campaign f sator markey. and two fund raisers, presidt obamaeang general alexander to endure the questions of senate appropriation committee all afternoon, trying be as transparent as one can be,
leading the nation's ntelligenc agencies, admitting that nsahelped foil several terror plots at home and dressing the nsa's credibility issues and dismissing various claim by snowden. fox news. chief intelligence correspondent katherine hairage has our report. >> the nsa director, alexander offered numbers. >> it is dozens of terrorists evens that these have helped prevt. >> reporter: intelligence commtee leadership, cimhat sweeping collectn of data disrupted a 2009 pt targeting new york city subway, genal alex angealexander conceding tok leahy that is not the case.
>> it started with a 702, set of information based on operaves to a person in colorado.ions in that was passed to the fbi. >> reporter: a senior democrat complained about the nsa's application of patriot act, section 215, so-called records provision. >> i quarrel with collecting all of the information in california on telephone records that seems to be overly broad. >> i saw an interview in which mr. owden claimed due to his position at nas, he could tap into virally any american's phone call, or e-mls. true or false? >> i know of no way to do that. >> repter: while alexander said that -- must be cleared by
a national security court, senator said of it not enough given pervasive environment of mistrust. >> the american public is fearful that in this massive amount of data you get, that there is the ability of federal government to since these that data -- since tha that date is n something more. >> reporr: i heard today from a source that the united states government is trying to bully hong kong government into extraditinge before the local government can 11 o lea of this natial security agey hacking people in hong kong. >> i do not have anything new. >> reporter: on thursday, a rare brifing of full senate on the nsadata collect programs, alexander will testify gain,
thisession itlassified and closed to the public. lou: thank you katherine. my first get resigned from nsa ter a caree spanning more than 3 decades protesting growing domestic sveillance, joining me william benny. former nsa employe and whistle-blower, thank you for joining us, your reaction to snowden'somments, talking about hacking operations of the united states government. clearly puttingreferring to put his fate in the hands of hong kong kon. >> i am not privy to the hacking. that at active attackystem in forth mead.
neil: you lef -- >> you left the nsa in protest over the government to cop dull conduct surveillance. seeking out terrorists after september 1 2001, you have seen history since. what are your thoughts now? >> from where i sit, and what i ha seen and read, and i know, they are attacking two communicion systems. public switch telephone network. that is aorld wide system, that will they could looking -- they are looking at the intern, worldwide web. so those are like phone numbers.
or you can dra the analogy, they areulling in that data, to reconstruct the communities of interest or if you will, social networks of every individual in the world, in particular rean i left, one o reason i could not stayhere was fac they were doing it to every u.s. citizen. my knowledge was they were taking in aut 320 million records of long-distance call of u.s. citizens to other u.s. citizens every day, that started inning oin october, 2001, thatsi could not be a part of that. u: patriot act that followed authorization for the government to begin much o that surveillance, did that allay youroncerns? >> no, the issue,hat theyan
do t capability, for example tea party. would you like to reconstructio tea paty or occupy groups, and who is central to the tea party, who is peripheral, and who is coming and you could have data about them, inclung get their names, if they apply for a tax exempt status you can check the list, then targ them if you want to. this is the problem with governme having so much knowledg about the citizens of the nation. lou: t knowledge about the citizens of the country, vsus the records of their communications, whether we go to operation prism, that include e-mails, video, you know along with the phone calls, and those voice communication. it is what do you with them, the storage in and was itself -- in andf itself troubles you,
othe say, whent is meted, you don't tril dnnles you have prob always and reason and great specificity, i hear you say that is an illususion. >> there are two ways to intelligence, one s read what they are saying, and pay attention. the other is to build aetadata see how they interact with one another, when do you thatnd timeline that, you can see who is doing what with wm and infer some activity they are tending to do, for example if you had a dru smuggler in colombia that wanted to smuggle drugs in u.s., he would have to communicate with someone in u.s. in some form to a range the sl and buy. then heould have torrange with someone to transport it, and then transfer the money, and the drugs, those have to happen,
they show up as interactions in metta data, 1 you see them, you can enter thats what they are doing. there is a lot you can do, you can see, i you are having medical problems, you see medical doctors you visit, king appointments with. you know, metadata is dangerous. lou: it is also ubiquitous and accessible not only by government, talking about that balance, wh surveillance and civil rights, and importance of our law, but we're also talking abou corporations. whether they be internet companies, net providers, whether they be large vast technology and telecommunications company, all of them sharinghe very information you describing in to agency of the government that we rely up on fond provide this --
to prode that surveillance. best understanng of knowledge of wha is happening in wor of internet in switch communicatio it is a very difficult -- if you will, bramble and thicket to navigate. >> and there is a another real danger, tk about trust. you have to trust the government. but you have to trust all of the people in the government, they can get on aerminal look at those systems get in to any database they want, to you have to tru contracto who maintain tha database and communication and quary routines, you have to trust all them not to go into that tabase, to look for things from other companies or something or competitors or look -- if you wanted to see if your wife is cheating on you, you dock that it is in the data -- you could do that, that is in the database.
you know, there is so man pitfalls, so main dangers, that asseling this information about individuals. lou: inferring relationships also, seeking out with great specificity, conctions from which to draw intelligent analysis and conclusions, whi is what we do want t nsa to do do. i am left then with the trust, ronald reagan, trust by verify, i think we would all expectt nsa to verif verify, verify irrespective who of t employee might be or position the might hold. the question is, in government do we trust? do we trust the president, the most latest polls say we do not, do we trust congress?
hardly. we cannot say that state department, and internal revenue service, that justice department, merit our trust can >> no. you can't. and there is anooher myth they are circulating around washington, they are claiming that is the truth. that is that you have to collect all of this data to get the terrorists. that is false. >> how so? >> two principles t use in theirollection of data and analysis to do that one, is if you i callo two degree principle, if y have a terrorist call someone in u.s., first-degree and second isho tt person in u.s. cal, there is a -- that forms a zone of suspecttion -- suspicion, you take that with monitoring jihadi advocating sites, and those who advocate the violce against the west, and see who is accessing those. they -- that ag gate then is your suspicion, zone of
suspicion, we would have gotten the fort hood shoot every, and boston bombers, they did that, they were a part of that, i do notnow of anyone that wou not have fall en int fallen int category, that is the principle i was using. u: you bring up boston bombing to me that is a failure of human up teligent, clear communication between cia and russian agencies, clear communications, between the russian agents, and fbi. i presume between the cia and fbi perhaps local. just speculating, but tt is human intelligence that was an abjec failure. >> i also called it intelligence failure was the -- part of it, they showed up in call records, and eve --
>> corroborated. >> yes, ex-fbi agent, clemente, he said no digital counications were safe, they had a way of getting back to communications between one of the bombers and his wife. lou: as we've - it has been fascinating listening to you take us through this and try as best we can to comprehend part of wt you are talking about. architecture of the operations of the agency and intelligence signal intelligence, let me can you this -- let me ask you this, you werealking about the nodes that are created by a series of connections, woor whether communication wean a jihaddist and someone in it coury, what do you make of the event of president of united states complaining mightily about cyberattacks, and ends up in souern california desert with
president pg. two day summit, cyberattacks ainst the u.s. to be a large agenda item, tough talk from the president, and suddenly that two day summit, is vorized by someone by the name of edward snowden. and hisevelations, and his forth coming details. in this -- tell me if you find a node, a coincidence, or just random cirmstae, in intelligence terms? >> well, it could be random, i would not be able to say, but the entire government could have avoided this, if they have been more honest with everything they are doing with the public. and if they would have de a proper job. a legal job a a constitutionally acceptable job. lou: no question.
u -- i find myself, you k st of this brocast scratching my hea and marveling at it. >> well, there is a probability of association. that that question would b did snowden kw about the visit for from hinese premier, and iffy did, then, and he could have connected with with that. certainly thats a possibility. >> well, a lot of possibilities remain for us. and will until we know, william bennett, thank you for expanng our knowledge. and i assure you, fault lies with me, not you, we appreciate it so much. >> thank you. lou: we'll have more on the scandals that grip obama administration throughout ts broadcast. stay with us. >> he is not tricky dick or a
lou: we're going to be talking with chairman, bob goodlot, conggessman from virginia, we're going to talk immigration, and the scaals in particular the nsa . sty as i is advancing but first we'll bring you to update on wall street, stocks finishing near session lows could dow jones with a triple digit plunge. posting first three day lose
streak of the yea down 127 s&p lost 14, and nazdaq down 37. volume on the big board remaining modest. gold gaining $15, crude oil up 50-cent the. in the bond market. yield too 10 year rose to 2.23%. senar ted cz offering his stark assessmt on future of the "gang of 8" bill. >> i very much want common sense immigration reform to pass. this bill is gng to pass the na. but as written, this bill will not pass the house. as written, this bill will not pass into law. and if this bill didecome law, it would not solve the problem.
indeed it would make the problem of illegal immigration we have today worse, rher than better. >> for more now on future of immigration reform, latest on the nsa leaking scandal we're joins by congressman bob goodlot of virginia, thank you, let me askou for your evaluation, you are -- you have moved forward 4 elements, stand alone bills, t agact, the agriculture guessworker program, legal work force act, that is everify employer verification of those hired, and skills act, and the safe act. how nene are that you we're going to see sensible reform emerge from the house and senate
this year? >> i fl ver good about safe act you mentioned last. it is not being dealt in senate anyway. that does not cover problem. on you are in a student voice argue don't have interior enforcement involving state and local government, invving othereasures that prohibit president from flipping a switch, and not enforcing aspects of our immigration laws, you are not addressing the oblem. senator cruz made good points in the remark you just broadca, we're attempts to go a very different direct in the house where we fix his problem as we address the overall immigration
situation. lou: your incrementl approach, is taking on the issues that matter most, they are elemental, the foundation issues of illegal immigration in the country. and at this point, how confident are you that you will have the leadership support, and support of the house? >> we think that we have gotten a vy good resnse from our rank and file members in the house, and our learship on the ep by step approach that we' talking. this i file very good aboutro -- feel very good about producg good solid legislation that addresses these problem, before we jump to conclusion about what kind of legaltatus should be given to people who are not present in u.s., we'll start that process in terms of
markups very soon, we'll pursue is aggressively but we are not bound by a time table, we're bound by getting itight. lou: thatnvolves the nsa, you ve been befed up on what is going to there and leaker snowden. i would like your charactering a if you will -- characterization if you will n this wrung man, and i would like to hear, tomorrow y will he a classified meeting with robert mueller, head of fbi, sentially -- i am sorry. >> we had the classified briefing yesterday with the deputy director of t fbi, deputy attorney general, and t -- the deputy director of national security agency, and we had a few hundred house members present for that briefing, which i conducted. but tomorrow, will be on the
record with director of the fbi, while there will be some things that are classified, he will not be able to discu it will be an opportunity for him to answer questions from members about the scope of the authority of the fbi under the laws as they are written. and to explain how the proams work or do not work to apprehend terrorists and others that are people that we want to have out of circulation who are great risks in our society, and then, the congress willave to weigh that against the obvio increased knowledge that the public has and a lot of members of congrs now have about the information that the government has gathered, so they can investigate the matters,,and whether they are indeed protecting innocent u.s. citizens from violations of
their constitutnal rights. >> you know, and mr. chairman, i want to apologize foraying it waslassied, i thought it was the, it is an own hearing, to my delight. we' to seend hear as much as possle what i happening. one of the conundrums that faces you and others seeking to understand andovern this massive organization, we call the federal government, there has to be an understanding that we -- agencies we trust, most in this country, are the united states military, and those who are if you will, at the point of the spear, intelligee, and covert operations. and then there is rest of the government right now, its a strange time, we don't trust congress. every poll shows so. we trust our tops. we trust their leaders. we don't trust the president. the polls say so.
we're talking about president who is under water with his approval waiting -- ratings, now. we don't trust our leadersp. says this is the bes that we can do. in the midst of this we have thes folks, the state department, whethert is the justice department, whom we rely on foro much. you will be talking with one of the principal leaders of the justice department, the head of the fbi. i mean, we are caught in a difficult conundrum rig now, and it sms to me a treacheus time, and it is not a play on words. i assure you. treacherous time for all of you are in charge of governing this great country. >> well, that is absolutely true. when you look at the benghazi scandal, you look at the irs investigation of various conservati groups, tea
parties. we find far, far more array of groups that were targeted for special iestigation by the irs. when you look at the use of, i would argue, extra attention for porters who are reporting the news and the ap, fox news reporter, the chief washington correspondent and get treated like a crock -- common criminal. the warrant to get his e-mails. lou: w suld point out. treated tat way by an fbi agent , a member of the justice department, and a judge. >> and approved by the attorney general. a federal judge actually apolog a few weeks ago right after the attorney general testified because he realized that what he had approved and sealed he kept sealed for an additional 18 months, longer than he had agreed to. and i think he probably realize when all of the scands broke
that he had forgotten to do that so that actually help thus saith advance our investigation considerably. is the job of the congress and the judiciary committee to take the necessary steps to look into this newslter and the others, of course, but this newsletter to find out what we need do to increase the test of the american people in their military commander intelligence gathering, the fbi because they do have to do their jobs. they have to do them right. if the rules have to be changed in the oversight has tbe changed how we should be prepared to do it. lou: we appreciate it so much. od luck tomorw. the open hearing wh the fbi dictor, robert miller. good to have youith us. >> thank you. lou: chairman of the house judiciary committee. up next, colorado wildfire striving thousands from their homes. we will have a full report straight ahe [ male announcer ] here's a word you should keep in mind. unbiased. some brokerage firms are. but way too ny aren't. why? because selling their funds makes them more money.
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lou: breaking news. it is a red flag warning in effect for western colorado and th colorado springs area tonight. a seriesf wildfires are iving thousands from their homes. officials say one of the worst fires, the black forest fire has destroyed somewhere between 80 and 100 homes. a triple digit decne for the dow, now three straight down days for the first time this year. s&p alec young tells us whether this is the correction. the man had on. what should he be charged with? treason, espionage? fox senior judicial analyst has a strong opinion. you may fin it somewhat controversial. controversial. stay at od, whatever business you're in, that's theusiness we're in with premium service like one of the best
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brough the world down around his head. so people describe him as a hero, others as a trar. where are you? >> i have described him as an american hero when i first lened of this. i continue to stand by that position. if he did what he said he did, if he is the person who reveals all the governments unconstitutional behavior he is confrted with the following, and of to keep secret the affirmation he was given command of to uphold theonstitution, and a clash bween the twoo what do you do? which desire? up keep secret or is us to follow the constitutn? it's a no-brainer. the constitution is the supreme law of the land. the government is violating the constitution and he knows about he has moral and constituonal obligation to reveal it. lou: you use the hypothetical. >> yes,. lou: there a lots of hypothetical. right now i don't know specifically what he is charged
with. i have not hea from him. >> adelle think any charged. odioustars gordy has been chard with. lou: what he is charging represents violation of the constitution or law, it's unclear. and, as you step forward, and others have to come in here, does it give you some trepidation, the timing because we a in a speculative era, the timing of ts revelation which wiped away a 2-day summit between the president of the essays and the president of china. his presence in hong kong and his charges that the united states was acting cnese publications and facilities. does that of give you any -- >> it does not trouble me all the revelation, the timing of the revelation was set by the reporters to whomepoke. he has been speaking to themor a long time. secondly, i reject the idea that we should tell on him, his background or his motivation.
we should dwell o the government has done to us in our name, use an interesting phrase, whether this is legal or constitutional they are different. you did. because the congress thinks that it can write in the law and regulate any behavior and tax in the event, andnd congress's mind whenever is as little as legal. but bause the constution restrains the congress because thconstitution prohibits a search warrant for 113 million americans and they're looking for two or three. it's unconitutional. to wt the government has done is legal because the pitchers that authorizes it. but profoundly unconstitutional because the congress has attempted to disregard the constitution. lou: it wille interesting to see where you come down when ll the facts are known. at this point -- >> i will give you this. with more facts every day. lou: we do, and i cannot imagine whone would not bes quiet bubble we're learning to this point.
you're a man of immense courag as well as intellect. >> it takes courage to sit here with you? [laughter] not at all. i would likeo come back. lou: you have a deal,nd we will make it frequently. >> thank you. lou: up next, a second consutive day of triple digit losses for the dow. s&p capitol, global equity rategist joins us. ♪ ale for this mission i upgraded your smart phone. ♪ right. but the most impoant feature of all is... the capital one purchase eraser. i can redeem the double miles i earnedith my venture card to erase recent travel purchases. d with a few clicks, this mission never happened. uh, what this button do? [ electricity zaps ] ♪ you requested backup? yes. yes i did. what's in your walle
♪ lou: a global equity strategt for snb capitol alick young joins us. good to have you year. three straight days of declines the dow for the fir time this year. you must be nervous. >> it ismazing how when volality really drives up like it as how lewd takes. relatively earlier this year, this because bellittle choppy.
lou: is assisted by somebody, thmarket, the fed, by whom? >> the statement by the market's response to the state and by the fed. basically we all love that you eat at the markets. and that thing down markets are getting a sense that not only the fed globally we may have seen the peak in stimulus. markets are having just on the downde. lou: one of the things i noted today, gurus are cutting it to cut talking about therospects. i mean, come on. we're looking at the ten year. that is unnerving to a lot of tes and certainly suggests that we will see greater volatility in t bond market. the implication shod be positive.
>> at this point absolutely right. the rise in bond yield is certaiy not an economy killer. yields are up, but historically very benign. clearly the ring rates is a bigger threat for fixed income than it is for equity. but at the margi given that we can all agree that qe end the fed did help dispemarkkt over the last few years, the idea that they may be peaking is only fair that that cause a little bit. lou: will we e a correction? >> a little bitore pain. 10%. lou: that's a little thing? >> already done have that much. lou: it will be interesting to see where this goes. the fed n always come in and add another0 or 30 billion to their monthly bond. i'm just kidding. good to see you. up next, lawmakers are lining up to call this man arader. the white house calls them -- theyemain silent.
♪ u: well, let's talk more about the in as a controversy, implicatio for national security. i am joined by pulitzer prize-wning journalist and columnist d a former u.s. ambassador to the united nations, bott fox is contributors. let's begin with you hero, a trader, or something in between? why is the white house silent? >> something in-between category. for the moment i was a ho category uil i read the interview that edward snowden gave in the china post in which announced that the u.s. vernment has been hacking into chinese and hongong sit.
61,000 others. well, that is not helpful. itoes not help his case. it is gng to make a lot of people likme wonder why he is doing this. lou: so it is not an accident, ambassador bolton, that edward snown turns up in hong kong and is now carrying the -- at least in these statements, the interest of th chinese. >> i think there is a lot more to ts individual an we know about. i hink his actions are treasonous. i think this is gravely damaging to the security of the united states. by the way, who died and made him king that heets to make these decisions unilaterally? i think the point you raise about the president is important. he is out in the tall grass again. he authorized these programs for four and a half years. i understand why he cannot talk about edward snowden, given the ongoing criminal investition the predent should be exercising his leaders, defending.
lou: this is a strange thing, the presidentnd is press secretary remaining silent. the nsa,he head of the nsa is testifying before congress what the man has said, done, publicly and acknowledged his actions against the interest of the united states. the justice department is filing charges right now, preparing those charges to file against him. and they don't want to, in any way, create a careful around this man who is obviously acting not in the interest of the uted stats in divulging secrets to and about the chinese >> said think he has lots of surrogate doing that for him. i think, you know, the more he raises the question, personally at think he could interfere with the criminal investigation. beyond that -- lou:hank god. otherwise good lord, knows wt
would happen to that investigation. >> this is where iart company with john. rather than look at edward snowden, want to look at all the officials is war undergrowth that we were not doing what we now know the u.s. government is doing. i mean, mr. clapper, for example, who was asked a flat out question, are we correctg this kind of data. he said no. no at least not intentionally. lou: he said -- >> not -- lou: i think what he said was he is being as honest as he can be. that is paraphrasing his statement. i would not be so upset with that general if he said anythg elle. how about you, john bolton? >> i think his answer was meretricious and maybe pretorius, but the question never should have been asked in public. that is the kindf question, a complicated answer i will give him credit for telling him in
advance. th makes his answer all the more inexplicable. lou: you are both very tough on these folks, and i he to tell you, i wonder howough he would be if they were not, in fact, taking every effort, every pain to go through and surveil as much as they possibly could to seeking out the bad guys. and doig soithin constraints that are, as the judge defined for us, legal, if not in conflict with the constitution and the judgment itself, but they are legal. >> well, we are going to find out because the aclu has now brought suit against the yen as for this kind of activity. we're going to find out whether or not is constitutional law not . i know the answer to that question. lou: you get the last word. >> i am not sure. i don't think the aclu has standing to bring this cas i know that the executive branch, legislative branch, and the jicial branch have all
♪ neil: all right, now we really know. the guys doing their bidding, they are bolting. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. what do you call microsoft a google and facebook getting a backbone all at the same time? well, big trouble for the white house. major u.s. technology firms are putting the government on notice that they want tgive tir customers notice. theyant to be allowed to disclosexactly how many times authorities demand of them to hand over user data. the present schism, and these high-tech guys are actually freaking out. they have customers and shareholders to wonder why they keep handing over dated